Show Transcript - February 12-Global TV
Thursday, February 17, 2011 2:48 PM
Transcript for Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 1830
Return to the Ring of Fire
GUESTS –
Hon Michael Gravelle, Minister of Northern Development, Mines and Forestry
Garry Clark, Executive Director, Ontario Prospectors’ Association
SEAN MALLEN: Last year we travelled north to talk to some people who rarely get a voice on province-wide media, the First Nations who live in the area of the giant mining claim, nicknamed the Ring of Fire. They said they were being sidelined from projects that could be worth billions, and their simmering anger was already starting to boil over in demonstrations. During our visit they announced they’d be stepping back from their protests, but only temporarily. Recently we returned to the region and found that the patience of those same First Nations is running out, and they’re threatening to bring exploration work to a standstill.
(video clip)
Beneath these frozen landscapes could be a multi-billion dollar bonanza of minerals, led by chromite, an essential element in stainless steel. Prospectors have rushed in with hundreds of claims and they have big plans. There’s talk of building a 300 km. railway through the wilderness to carry out the ore. It is all happening next door to some of Ontario’s most impoverished citizens, isolated First Nations, where the rate of unemployment typically tops 70 per cent, people who say ‘what about us’.
Roy Spence, Webequie Councillor: Nothing is happening right now. We’ve just been having meetings. We want the money now, not later.
While some mining companies have reached out to them to consult and to offer jobs, they say many others have not. Fed up, two First Nations blockaded a pair of frozen landing strips, crippling exploration efforts. The Minister of Northern Development made a personal visit to the region, trying to cool things down. It worked. The Chiefs told Michael Gravelle that they would end their protests, but only temporarily, putting him on notice that they expected progress. Now less than a year later, they say they’ve waited long enough and the blockade is going back up.
On this week’s Focus Ontario – Return to the Ring of Fire.
From the Global News room in Toronto, this is Focus Ontario with Sean Mallen.
SEAN MALLEN: Thanks for joining me again. Later in the program I’ll be joined by the Minister of Northern Development, and also by a representative from the Prospectors’ Association. But first, have a look at what we found on our flight north.
(flying shots of reserves)
It is no easy matter to get to these places. Most of the affected communities can be reached only by air, or winter road. They’re in the riding of Kenora – Rainy River, the largest constituency in the province, bigger than most European nations. We tagged along with the MPP, New Democrat Howard Hampton, as he chartered a plane for one of his regular tours.
Howard Hampton, MPP, Kenora-Rainy River: It’s the far north of Ontario that is now attracting mining exploration companies from around the world.
SEAN MALLEN: Big time.
Howard Hampton: Big time. And I wish you could say that every one of those mining companies has the well-being of these First Nation communities in mind, and that’s not the case. Some of these mining companies simply want the money, they want it quickly and everything else is sort of second or third in importance.
First stop, Lansdowne House, otherwise known as the ‘Neskantaga’ First Nation.
Derek Moonias: That’s the main Ring of Fire over there.
You guys are sort of on the edge of it then.
Derek Moonias: Yeah.
Derek Moonias actually has a job with one of the companies doing exploration work. What’s your work? What do you do?
Derek Moonias: Camp manager.
Okay, and how many guys in there?
Derek Moonias: There’s about 25 right now.
Band leaders told their MPP that some prospectors have been making an effort to collaborate with them, but most have not.
Wayne Moonias, Neskantaga Councillor: You see other companies they just want to come in and say can I go for a coffee with the Chief, okay good. That’s consultation.
Howard Hampton: They’ve learned something from the government.
Like almost all First Nations in the region, they said they welcome development, but want to be part of it.
Peter Moonias, Former Neskantaga Chief: Cause our young generation is going to be different. They’re not going to be like my grandfather who sat there and let the mining companies abuse them. They’re not going to care about going to jail and things like that you know.
They have to have a say on the issue. We’re not asking for one hundred per cent being given to us, we’re asking for something that can benefit our community so the resource can be shared with our people, because we have nothing.
The next morning in Webequie, a breakfast meeting with band leaders.
(Howard Hampton serving eggs)
Howard Hampton: Couple eggs. There you go.
Although Hampton is an opposition member, he got an earful of their outrage at government.
Roy Spence, Webequie Councillor: You should have done something for my people but you guys haven’t done nothing yet. When are you guys going to learn about the devastation of our people. You heard us through these people here. You guys haven’t done nothing yet.
This band councillor has been pushing for training for young people so they can take advantage of potential mining jobs to come. But he has been met with frustration.
Roy Spence: The federal government has this ugly, ugly policy I don’t like, eh. Okay, I’ll tell you this, Howard. I can’t afford to go to college or university because I can’t even ask for a loan because I can’t build credit here. It’s unfair, it’s unequal.
I don’t feel like a Canadian citizen, I don’t feel like an Ontarian.
You’ve got literally a multi-billion dollar development going up basically right next door and out of it so far, what you are getting?
Roy Spence: Nothing.
A few jobs, in fairness a few jobs.
Roy Spence: A few jobs yeah, maybe 25, but we want a hundred, we want five hundred of my members to work there.
What’s the rate of unemployment in Webequie now?
Roy Spence: Eighty-five per cent unemployment.
Well, you had the Minister here last year. I was here when the Minister of Northern Development and Mines was here and he gave you all a hearing, has anything happened since then. Do you think there’s any sign of progress since then?
Roy Spence: You know it’s all talk you know. People just want to say things just to keep us happy. But there’s no solid commitment. We want solid commitment.
I guess the question is if they don’t work with you more than they are, if they don’t give you more of what you think you’re deserving here, what’s going to happen?
Roy Spence: Well, if we’re not at a level where we should be right now, or if we’re not being a part of this development, there is no development, there will be no development.
You’ll stop it somehow.
Roy Spence: Somehow. There’s different approaches in stopping any development. We’ll change our position, we’re against development. But right now we’re for development, we want to be side by side with government and industry. If government and industry doesn’t want to be side by side with us, we’ll say no. We’ll change our position, we’ve had enough. Enough bureaucratic falsehoods, enough bullshit technically.
The young fellow there, Travis, said sometimes he doesn’t even feel like a Canadian with all this, how about you?
Cornelius Wabasse, Webequie Chief: Yeah, sometimes we think you know as First Nation’s people we’re overlooked, we don’t seem to exist. Government just continues to make plans without us, without our input, and that’s where we get out of place. Sometimes we get left behind.
The Chief told me that they are now ready for direct action again – blocking prospectors from flying in. Would it be that same airstrip on the lake?
Cornelius Wabasse, Webequie Chief: Yeah, same airstrip.
So this is a sure thing. There’s going to be a blockade unless there’s some serious progress?
Cornelius Wabasse, Webequie Chief: Yeah, unless there’s serious progress from the government that they’re willing to work with us, that they’re willing to deal with our issues, then if not then there’s going to be a blockade.
The work stops.
Cornelius Wabasse, Webequie Chief: The work stops.
Howard Hampton: The reality is this, if the provincial government doesn’t address the First Nation issues I don’t think you are going to see any real mining activity because you can’t access much of this territory without using the resources of First Nations.
And back in a moment to hear what the Minister of Northern Development says about all this.
* * *
SEAN MALLEN: The McGuinty government’s point person on the Ring of Fire is the Minister of Northern Development, Mines and Forestry, Michael Gravelle. He joins me from Thunder Bay. Welcome back to the program, Minister.
Michael Gravelle: Thank you, Sean. Thanks for having me on the show.
SEAN MALLEN: Well, you were able to listen to that report. We were up there last year together. You went to a lot of effort to get those blockades down. Looks like they’re going back up. What can you do about it?
Michael Gravelle: Well, we’re certainly still hopeful that we can move forward in a very positive way. There’s no question, I recognize the frustration. We also agree that there very much needs to be a tremendous value to the communities in order for this project to move forward. They need to benefit in a very significant way and I think everyone agrees that’s the case. That’s in fact why we have hired a Ring of Fire coordinator, who is now in place, bring together all the parties, the government, the First Nations, and the companies and you know I still think we are in a position where indeed the discussions we’re having are important and we are in the midst of signing agreements with a number of First Nations, Webequie and Marten Falls, we signed a letter of intent. So while I recognize the frustrations I can tell you that we are working very, very hard to bring everyone together and to try and resolve the concerns that are there.
SEAN MALLEN: Let me bring one specific concern. I spoke to the Chief of Marten Falls just the other day. He said one particular irritant was one work camp that has been set up near Koper Lake by prospectors, where he says they didn’t ask the First Nation’s permission at all. He told me he called you, you spoke to him, he said what can you do, and he said to you get rid of that camp. Anything you can do about that?
Michael Gravelle: Yes, I spoke to Chief Moonias last year a couple of times, and within last couple of weeks, and certainly I’ve offered personally to go up there as well. Our Ring of Fire coordinator, Christine Keszycki, has been up to the community as well relatively recently. We’re also offering to bring together the companies with Chief Moonias and the others to try and find a way to get a resolution to the concerns that he has. So we’re very engaged in that discussion and want to be able to work as closely as we can with Chief Moonias.
SEAN MALLEN: Can you convince the companies to abandon the camp?
Michael Gravelle: Well, these are structures that indeed were set up as temporary structures that were put in place. There were some concerns about whether or not they were actually larger and longer-lasting structures. We sent ministry people in as well. Again we’ve expressed to them the concerns that the Chief has. They’re trying very hard to work with the First Nations as well, and I do think that the offer that we have to try to bring them all together to have an opportunity to resolve those concerns at a table together in the community is one that I really hope that Chief Moonias will look at seriously. We want to be able to work together.
As everyone knows this is a great opportunity and we want to be able to make sure that indeed the communities such as Marten Falls, Webequie, Naskantaga, Eabametoong, many others, are able to take advantage of this great opportunity. So we want to be able to work with them closely. We’re very close to signing a memorandum of understanding between ourselves and Marten Falls as well. So you know we’re making every effort.
SEAN MALLEN: Forgive me Minister, this is what you were telling them last year and what they told me very clearly over and over again in most of the places you just listed, was so far it’s just been lip service. They want something concrete – here are the benefits we can expect, here is the level of consultation we can expect, and up to now we’re not getting it. When can they expect something more concrete?
Michael Gravelle: Well, I think it’s also important to point out if I may Sean, you know this development is at the very, very early, early stages. There’s still much work to be done. As it was pointed out in your story in the early part of the show the companies have hired a number of people to work with them. We want to be able to be the agents of coordination to this, we think that’s the most important role we can play. We set up a northern training partnership fund, which is also going to address some of the skill being centred there as well, which was also mentioned earlier on. So I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s lip service. The fact is that we are working as closely as we can.
I have a very cordial, positive relationship with Chief Moonias, as I like to think I do with all the First Nation leaders, and while we recognize that there are some real challenges, we believe that by bringing all the parties together we can resolve these concerns and certainly Chief Moonias, as you may recall last year said he wanted to have a memorandum of understanding signed between Marten Falls and the Province of Ontario. We’re certainly very prepared to do that. We’ve done a lot of work to make that happen which will basically delineate all those issues and the consultation of realities that I believe Chief Moonias is talking about.
SEAN MALLEN: Okay, forgive me for interrupting Minister, because I just have about a minute left and I want to ask a quick question. The Far North Act, which governs development in this whole region, I was told consistently all the First Nations are against it. They don’t get enough say in what goes on. The prospectors we’re about to hear from shortly, they’re not very happy with it either. You’re a northern member, it seems like everybody in the North is against The Far North Act. Is there any thought of rethinking that?
Michael Gravelle: Well, the fact is that The Far North Act gives the First Nations certainly more than an opportunity to determine how they want to have their land use go forward, and their land developed, and their economic future be determined. So they have a very significant say as well. Certainly in terms of the Ring of Fire, the important thing that I think needs to be said is that our government is absolutely committed to the development of the Ring of Fire. Premier McGuinty has made that clear, we’ve made it very, very clear that indeed this is an opportunity that we want to be able to see move forward to the benefit of the First Nations and the benefit obviously to the communities in northern Ontario and we think this is a tremendous opportunity for everyone. So we believe – and there’s one thing that in terms of The Far North Act, which specific communities in terms of land-use planning, and quite frankly I want us to be able to continue to work together in the fashion that we have in the past.
SEAN MALLEN: Okay Minister, forgive me for interrupting, but we’re tight for time. I want to leave some time for the prospectors. So thanks for coming back on the program.
Michael Gravelle: Thanks so much, Sean.
SEAN MALLEN: And when we return, a representative of the prospectors.
Thursday, February 17, 2011 2:48 PM
Transcript for Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 1830
Return to the Ring of Fire
GUESTS –
Hon Michael Gravelle, Minister of Northern Development, Mines and Forestry
Garry Clark, Executive Director, Ontario Prospectors’ Association
SEAN MALLEN: Last year we travelled north to talk to some people who rarely get a voice on province-wide media, the First Nations who live in the area of the giant mining claim, nicknamed the Ring of Fire. They said they were being sidelined from projects that could be worth billions, and their simmering anger was already starting to boil over in demonstrations. During our visit they announced they’d be stepping back from their protests, but only temporarily. Recently we returned to the region and found that the patience of those same First Nations is running out, and they’re threatening to bring exploration work to a standstill.
(video clip)
Beneath these frozen landscapes could be a multi-billion dollar bonanza of minerals, led by chromite, an essential element in stainless steel. Prospectors have rushed in with hundreds of claims and they have big plans. There’s talk of building a 300 km. railway through the wilderness to carry out the ore. It is all happening next door to some of Ontario’s most impoverished citizens, isolated First Nations, where the rate of unemployment typically tops 70 per cent, people who say ‘what about us’.
Roy Spence, Webequie Councillor: Nothing is happening right now. We’ve just been having meetings. We want the money now, not later.
While some mining companies have reached out to them to consult and to offer jobs, they say many others have not. Fed up, two First Nations blockaded a pair of frozen landing strips, crippling exploration efforts. The Minister of Northern Development made a personal visit to the region, trying to cool things down. It worked. The Chiefs told Michael Gravelle that they would end their protests, but only temporarily, putting him on notice that they expected progress. Now less than a year later, they say they’ve waited long enough and the blockade is going back up.
On this week’s Focus Ontario – Return to the Ring of Fire.
From the Global News room in Toronto, this is Focus Ontario with Sean Mallen.
SEAN MALLEN: Thanks for joining me again. Later in the program I’ll be joined by the Minister of Northern Development, and also by a representative from the Prospectors’ Association. But first, have a look at what we found on our flight north.
(flying shots of reserves)
It is no easy matter to get to these places. Most of the affected communities can be reached only by air, or winter road. They’re in the riding of Kenora – Rainy River, the largest constituency in the province, bigger than most European nations. We tagged along with the MPP, New Democrat Howard Hampton, as he chartered a plane for one of his regular tours.
Howard Hampton, MPP, Kenora-Rainy River: It’s the far north of Ontario that is now attracting mining exploration companies from around the world.
SEAN MALLEN: Big time.
Howard Hampton: Big time. And I wish you could say that every one of those mining companies has the well-being of these First Nation communities in mind, and that’s not the case. Some of these mining companies simply want the money, they want it quickly and everything else is sort of second or third in importance.
First stop, Lansdowne House, otherwise known as the ‘Neskantaga’ First Nation.
Derek Moonias: That’s the main Ring of Fire over there.
You guys are sort of on the edge of it then.
Derek Moonias: Yeah.
Derek Moonias actually has a job with one of the companies doing exploration work. What’s your work? What do you do?
Derek Moonias: Camp manager.
Okay, and how many guys in there?
Derek Moonias: There’s about 25 right now.
Band leaders told their MPP that some prospectors have been making an effort to collaborate with them, but most have not.
Wayne Moonias, Neskantaga Councillor: You see other companies they just want to come in and say can I go for a coffee with the Chief, okay good. That’s consultation.
Howard Hampton: They’ve learned something from the government.
Like almost all First Nations in the region, they said they welcome development, but want to be part of it.
Peter Moonias, Former Neskantaga Chief: Cause our young generation is going to be different. They’re not going to be like my grandfather who sat there and let the mining companies abuse them. They’re not going to care about going to jail and things like that you know.
They have to have a say on the issue. We’re not asking for one hundred per cent being given to us, we’re asking for something that can benefit our community so the resource can be shared with our people, because we have nothing.
The next morning in Webequie, a breakfast meeting with band leaders.
(Howard Hampton serving eggs)
Howard Hampton: Couple eggs. There you go.
Although Hampton is an opposition member, he got an earful of their outrage at government.
Roy Spence, Webequie Councillor: You should have done something for my people but you guys haven’t done nothing yet. When are you guys going to learn about the devastation of our people. You heard us through these people here. You guys haven’t done nothing yet.
This band councillor has been pushing for training for young people so they can take advantage of potential mining jobs to come. But he has been met with frustration.
Roy Spence: The federal government has this ugly, ugly policy I don’t like, eh. Okay, I’ll tell you this, Howard. I can’t afford to go to college or university because I can’t even ask for a loan because I can’t build credit here. It’s unfair, it’s unequal.
I don’t feel like a Canadian citizen, I don’t feel like an Ontarian.
You’ve got literally a multi-billion dollar development going up basically right next door and out of it so far, what you are getting?
Roy Spence: Nothing.
A few jobs, in fairness a few jobs.
Roy Spence: A few jobs yeah, maybe 25, but we want a hundred, we want five hundred of my members to work there.
What’s the rate of unemployment in Webequie now?
Roy Spence: Eighty-five per cent unemployment.
Well, you had the Minister here last year. I was here when the Minister of Northern Development and Mines was here and he gave you all a hearing, has anything happened since then. Do you think there’s any sign of progress since then?
Roy Spence: You know it’s all talk you know. People just want to say things just to keep us happy. But there’s no solid commitment. We want solid commitment.
I guess the question is if they don’t work with you more than they are, if they don’t give you more of what you think you’re deserving here, what’s going to happen?
Roy Spence: Well, if we’re not at a level where we should be right now, or if we’re not being a part of this development, there is no development, there will be no development.
You’ll stop it somehow.
Roy Spence: Somehow. There’s different approaches in stopping any development. We’ll change our position, we’re against development. But right now we’re for development, we want to be side by side with government and industry. If government and industry doesn’t want to be side by side with us, we’ll say no. We’ll change our position, we’ve had enough. Enough bureaucratic falsehoods, enough bullshit technically.
The young fellow there, Travis, said sometimes he doesn’t even feel like a Canadian with all this, how about you?
Cornelius Wabasse, Webequie Chief: Yeah, sometimes we think you know as First Nation’s people we’re overlooked, we don’t seem to exist. Government just continues to make plans without us, without our input, and that’s where we get out of place. Sometimes we get left behind.
The Chief told me that they are now ready for direct action again – blocking prospectors from flying in. Would it be that same airstrip on the lake?
Cornelius Wabasse, Webequie Chief: Yeah, same airstrip.
So this is a sure thing. There’s going to be a blockade unless there’s some serious progress?
Cornelius Wabasse, Webequie Chief: Yeah, unless there’s serious progress from the government that they’re willing to work with us, that they’re willing to deal with our issues, then if not then there’s going to be a blockade.
The work stops.
Cornelius Wabasse, Webequie Chief: The work stops.
Howard Hampton: The reality is this, if the provincial government doesn’t address the First Nation issues I don’t think you are going to see any real mining activity because you can’t access much of this territory without using the resources of First Nations.
And back in a moment to hear what the Minister of Northern Development says about all this.
* * *
SEAN MALLEN: The McGuinty government’s point person on the Ring of Fire is the Minister of Northern Development, Mines and Forestry, Michael Gravelle. He joins me from Thunder Bay. Welcome back to the program, Minister.
Michael Gravelle: Thank you, Sean. Thanks for having me on the show.
SEAN MALLEN: Well, you were able to listen to that report. We were up there last year together. You went to a lot of effort to get those blockades down. Looks like they’re going back up. What can you do about it?
Michael Gravelle: Well, we’re certainly still hopeful that we can move forward in a very positive way. There’s no question, I recognize the frustration. We also agree that there very much needs to be a tremendous value to the communities in order for this project to move forward. They need to benefit in a very significant way and I think everyone agrees that’s the case. That’s in fact why we have hired a Ring of Fire coordinator, who is now in place, bring together all the parties, the government, the First Nations, and the companies and you know I still think we are in a position where indeed the discussions we’re having are important and we are in the midst of signing agreements with a number of First Nations, Webequie and Marten Falls, we signed a letter of intent. So while I recognize the frustrations I can tell you that we are working very, very hard to bring everyone together and to try and resolve the concerns that are there.
SEAN MALLEN: Let me bring one specific concern. I spoke to the Chief of Marten Falls just the other day. He said one particular irritant was one work camp that has been set up near Koper Lake by prospectors, where he says they didn’t ask the First Nation’s permission at all. He told me he called you, you spoke to him, he said what can you do, and he said to you get rid of that camp. Anything you can do about that?
Michael Gravelle: Yes, I spoke to Chief Moonias last year a couple of times, and within last couple of weeks, and certainly I’ve offered personally to go up there as well. Our Ring of Fire coordinator, Christine Keszycki, has been up to the community as well relatively recently. We’re also offering to bring together the companies with Chief Moonias and the others to try and find a way to get a resolution to the concerns that he has. So we’re very engaged in that discussion and want to be able to work as closely as we can with Chief Moonias.
SEAN MALLEN: Can you convince the companies to abandon the camp?
Michael Gravelle: Well, these are structures that indeed were set up as temporary structures that were put in place. There were some concerns about whether or not they were actually larger and longer-lasting structures. We sent ministry people in as well. Again we’ve expressed to them the concerns that the Chief has. They’re trying very hard to work with the First Nations as well, and I do think that the offer that we have to try to bring them all together to have an opportunity to resolve those concerns at a table together in the community is one that I really hope that Chief Moonias will look at seriously. We want to be able to work together.
As everyone knows this is a great opportunity and we want to be able to make sure that indeed the communities such as Marten Falls, Webequie, Naskantaga, Eabametoong, many others, are able to take advantage of this great opportunity. So we want to be able to work with them closely. We’re very close to signing a memorandum of understanding between ourselves and Marten Falls as well. So you know we’re making every effort.
SEAN MALLEN: Forgive me Minister, this is what you were telling them last year and what they told me very clearly over and over again in most of the places you just listed, was so far it’s just been lip service. They want something concrete – here are the benefits we can expect, here is the level of consultation we can expect, and up to now we’re not getting it. When can they expect something more concrete?
Michael Gravelle: Well, I think it’s also important to point out if I may Sean, you know this development is at the very, very early, early stages. There’s still much work to be done. As it was pointed out in your story in the early part of the show the companies have hired a number of people to work with them. We want to be able to be the agents of coordination to this, we think that’s the most important role we can play. We set up a northern training partnership fund, which is also going to address some of the skill being centred there as well, which was also mentioned earlier on. So I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s lip service. The fact is that we are working as closely as we can.
I have a very cordial, positive relationship with Chief Moonias, as I like to think I do with all the First Nation leaders, and while we recognize that there are some real challenges, we believe that by bringing all the parties together we can resolve these concerns and certainly Chief Moonias, as you may recall last year said he wanted to have a memorandum of understanding signed between Marten Falls and the Province of Ontario. We’re certainly very prepared to do that. We’ve done a lot of work to make that happen which will basically delineate all those issues and the consultation of realities that I believe Chief Moonias is talking about.
SEAN MALLEN: Okay, forgive me for interrupting Minister, because I just have about a minute left and I want to ask a quick question. The Far North Act, which governs development in this whole region, I was told consistently all the First Nations are against it. They don’t get enough say in what goes on. The prospectors we’re about to hear from shortly, they’re not very happy with it either. You’re a northern member, it seems like everybody in the North is against The Far North Act. Is there any thought of rethinking that?
Michael Gravelle: Well, the fact is that The Far North Act gives the First Nations certainly more than an opportunity to determine how they want to have their land use go forward, and their land developed, and their economic future be determined. So they have a very significant say as well. Certainly in terms of the Ring of Fire, the important thing that I think needs to be said is that our government is absolutely committed to the development of the Ring of Fire. Premier McGuinty has made that clear, we’ve made it very, very clear that indeed this is an opportunity that we want to be able to see move forward to the benefit of the First Nations and the benefit obviously to the communities in northern Ontario and we think this is a tremendous opportunity for everyone. So we believe – and there’s one thing that in terms of The Far North Act, which specific communities in terms of land-use planning, and quite frankly I want us to be able to continue to work together in the fashion that we have in the past.
SEAN MALLEN: Okay Minister, forgive me for interrupting, but we’re tight for time. I want to leave some time for the prospectors. So thanks for coming back on the program.
Michael Gravelle: Thanks so much, Sean.
SEAN MALLEN: And when we return, a representative of the prospectors.
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